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Messages from 148725

Article: 148725
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: Brian Drummond <brian_drummond@btconnect.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:53:33 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:59:58 -0500, "Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com>
wrote:

>I am designing myself a FPGA board to interact with a PCI Bus and i have
>couple questions. 
>
>First, Is it mandatory to have 2 power layers (GND + VCC)? 
>
>Second, i just got a quote from a PCB manufactury and it should cost me
>$250 to make a board. Is it possible to find a cheaper board? The cheapest
>i found was Dragon Board from Knjn with a price of $300. Once i heared
>about a Insight Eletronics Board but i could not find it ...
>
>Any sugestions? 

Enterpoint have ready made boards, with lots of expansion I/O, and example PCI
driver software (not trivial!) within your price range. The most likely
candidate:

http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/raggedstone1.html

Also, PCIe boards are worth considering as an alternative.

- Brian


Article: 148726
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:12:04 +0000 (UTC)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
rupertlssmith@googlemail.com <rupertlssmith@googlemail.com> wrote:

> What about books? Can anyone recommend a good book to get started
> with? I like books that are not too dry and start simple then build up
> the complexity of the subject in a hands on tutorial way. There are
> lots of books on Amazon, but not many of them have reviews, which
> makes it hard to choose. I guess the readership of these books is not
> so huge that lots of reviews get written.

In learning to use FPGAs, you need to learn both logic design
and (usually) either verilog or VHDL.  They are often described
in different books, but you need both.

If you already know logic design (maybe from the 74xx TTL days)
then you need a good book on either verilog or VHDL.

Unfortunately I don't know any logic design books to recommend,
but maybe others do.

-- glen

Article: 148727
Subject: Re: CE compliance testing
From: nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:10:03 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
<fredxx@spam.com> wrote:

>
>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>
>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on 
>an affordable solution.

If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
sticker says you take responsibility for the product.

If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.

This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html

If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
ofcourse).

The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Article: 148728
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: Bryan <bryan.fletcher@avnet.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:10:38 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Insight Electronics was a Memec company, and Memec was acquired by
Avnet in 2005.  The board to which you are referring is a Spartan-2
PCI board, which you can find here: www.em.avnet.com/spartan2pci for
$295.  Spartan-2 was the last Xilinx device to be 5V tolerant, so this
board is 100% PCI compliant.  Avnet also has a Spartan-3 based PCI
board as well, but it uses level shifters and is not 100% compliant --
www.em.avnet.com/spartan3-evl.  When I just looked, I don't see any
stock for the Spartan-3 Eval boards.  Both these boards require a PCI
license from Xilinx to do development -- www.xilinx.com/pci.

I agree with Brian that you should definitely consider PCIe.  Xilinx
Spartan-6 LXT has embedded transceivers and PCIe block, so you can do
PCIe development without consuming logic resources in your FPGA and
with no extra licensing cost.  You could consider the SP605 --
www.xilinx.com/sp605, $495, or upgrade to the Avnet S6LX150T board --
www.em.avnet.com/spartan6lx150t-dev, $995.

Bryan

On Aug 18, 7:59=A0am, "Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote:
> I am designing myself a FPGA board to interact with a PCI Bus and i have
> couple questions.
>
> First, Is it mandatory to have 2 power layers (GND + VCC)?
>
> Second, i just got a quote from a PCB manufactury and it should cost me
> $250 to make a board. Is it possible to find a cheaper board? The cheapes=
t
> i found was Dragon Board from Knjn with a price of $300. Once i heared
> about a Insight Eletronics Board but i could not find it ...
>
> Any sugestions?
>
> Thats all for now!!
>
> Thank you!
>
> --------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> Posted throughhttp://www.FPGARelated.com


Article: 148729
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:12:13 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
"Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com> wrote:

>I am designing myself a FPGA board to interact with a PCI Bus and i have
>couple questions. 
>
>First, Is it mandatory to have 2 power layers (GND + VCC)? 

No. Just look at cheap network cards; they are two layer boards.

>Second, i just got a quote from a PCB manufactury and it should cost me
>$250 to make a board. Is it possible to find a cheaper board? The cheapest

If you go for 2 layers then it should cost much less (depending on the
board size).

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Article: 148730
Subject: Re: VDHL initializing
From: "hvo" <hai.vo@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.synrad.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:25:26 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
>On Aug 18, 12:32=A0pm, "hvo" <hai.vo@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.synrad.com>
>wrote:
>
>> >I find default values some-what useful because I can leave a signal
open=
>,
>> >i.e.
>>
>> mysignal(0) =3D> someothersignal,
>> mysignal(3 downto 1) =3D> open,
>>
>
>Actually that example is illegal.  You can't have a vector that is
>partially assigned and partially opened.  I opened a feature
>suggestion to the VHDL standards group several years back to have that
>changed.
>
>KJ
>

Wouldn't the open port vectors just take on their default value?  The
"open" just tells that I am not connecting anything to it.  

I am using Xilinx ISE 10.1 and I was able to implement my design with
something similar to above.  




	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.FPGARelated.com

Article: 148731
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:06:02 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
You don't need to spend a lot of money to start with. Take your choice
of 4 FPGA vendors on our Polmaddie series
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/polmaddie/polmaddie_family.html which are
supported by either free or low cost tools from the relevant vendor.
You can do some practical playing before you move on to something more
advanced.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 17 Aug, 18:07, "rupertlssm...@googlemail.com"
<rupertlssm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in learning more about FPGAs in a hands on way. Can
> anyone recommend an inexpensive set of tools to get started with? My
> wishlist is: I'd like to develop on Linux, I'd like to spend no more
> than a few hundred $ on a starter kit, I'd like to learn using the
> tools and up-to-date skills that are relevant to the more high end set
> ups available. Which is better to start with, Xilinx or Altera or
> something else? Is there a choice between Verilog and VHDL to be made,
> or can both be tried out just as easily?
>
> At the moment I am not too bothered about specific applications, just
> if I can get some hands on experience, whatever i/o ports are
> available on whatever board I use, I will think of some little project
> to try out using them.
>
> Thanks for your recommendations.
>
> Rupert


Article: 148732
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:42:37 +0000 (UTC)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Bryan <bryan.fletcher@avnet.com> wrote:
> Insight Electronics was a Memec company, and Memec was acquired by
> Avnet in 2005.  The board to which you are referring is a Spartan-2
> PCI board, which you can find here: www.em.avnet.com/spartan2pci for
> $295.  Spartan-2 was the last Xilinx device to be 5V tolerant, so this
> board is 100% PCI compliant.  Avnet also has a Spartan-3 based PCI
> board as well, but it uses level shifters and is not 100% compliant --
> www.em.avnet.com/spartan3-evl.  When I just looked, I don't see any
> stock for the Spartan-3 Eval boards.  Both these boards require a PCI
> license from Xilinx to do development -- www.xilinx.com/pci.

I thought if you had the right notches a PCI board wouldn't fit
in a 5V slot.   That would seem easier than adding level shifters.

-- glen

Article: 148733
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: "Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:54:53 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hmmm i agree that if that board was intended to be used on a normal
computer PCIe would be a much better option, but it is just a intermediate
board becouse the final one is going to be used on a PC/104+ board that
does not have PCIe. But so for i do not have the PC/104 processor board. 

The cheappest board they sell at Enterpoint got a good price, $225 + VAT
but they are out of stock. They sell a PCI/104 board too.. that is a very
useful information. I am going to develop myself a PCI bridge to FPGA so i
wont have to pay for any IP. I am taking as reference a IP core that i
found at OpenCores. 

And finaly i am using quickswiths myself to make the board universal. To
have a only 3.3V board would be a problem as many computers have 5V only
PCI bus. Thank you for all the sugestions and answers guys. If some one
else knows any available board with that price i am still accepting
sugestions. I will put all my efforts on making my board double layers, but
at the final board it is going to be 4 layers anyway.

Cya 	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.FPGARelated.com

Article: 148734
Subject: Re: CPLD development board with 8-bit wide Flash/EEProm
From: -jg <jim.granville@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:02:22 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Aug 18, 5:14=A0am, stevem1 <steve.martind...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The custom 8051 is ~10-15K std 2-input gates. That's what we get
> when we put the 8051 RTL into an ASIC. But I want the 8051
> programation
> to be ~permanent in the CPLD and then be able to access the
> external Flash/EEprom as the code memory for the 8051.
> We need many of these to give to customers for 8051 code
> development, but I don't want them affecting the 8051 core
> programmation.
> I just want them to be able to write code for the 8051 and put that
> code into
> an external Flash/EE, that they can program on a programmer.
>
> It sounds like I just need to put an EEporm socket on the CPLD board.
>

I'm having trouble tracking this question.

It sounds like you sell 8051 IP, and want a 'working example', but I
cannot imagine someone doing ASICs, programming chips to flip into
sockets - they will expect a PC-Debug pathway (and usually that
pathway, can also pgm the code-storage) - your IP does have Debug,
right ?

 As they are also likely going to be developing peripherals, you could
work up a Dual-FPGA platform ?
- one FPGA holds your IP and accesses the Memory, and is a stable/
known reference point, and the other holds their peripheral
developments.

 A typical asic-8051 would have Flash+SRAM, and allow code to run from
either.

 Interesting on an asic-8051 would be the ability to run from a
combination of SRAM + QuadSPI memory :)

-jg


Article: 148735
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: Symon <symon_brewer@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 01:17:01 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 8/17/2010 8:43 PM, Jonathan Bromley wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:07:45 -0700 (PDT),
> rupertlssmith@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm interested in learning more about FPGAs
>
> Wow.  I think this thread reminds me why it's still
> kinda nice to hang out on comp.arch.fpga (and
> comp.lang.vhdl, .verilog).
>
For every nice reply, it's important to have a dissenting one. The OP 
post's IP (NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.15.253.202) resolves to something 
called IBM regus UK. Whatever that is. Seems to be some kind of 
training. I would suggest that 'Rupert' could be best served by asking 
his trainers the answer to his query. Especially if the prices listed 
match the course 'Rupert' is on. Anyway, IBM regus has gotta be better 
than Doulos, right?

Cheers, Syms.




Article: 148736
Subject: Re: VDHL initializing
From: KJ <kkjennings@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:45:42 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Aug 18, 4:25=A0pm, "hvo" <hai.vo@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.synrad.com>
wrote:
> >On Aug 18, 12:32=3DA0pm, "hvo" <hai.vo@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.synrad.co=
m>
> >wrote:
>
> >> >I find default values some-what useful because I can leave a signal
> open=3D
> >,
> >> >i.e.
>
> >> mysignal(0) =3D3D> someothersignal,
> >> mysignal(3 downto 1) =3D3D> open,
>
> >Actually that example is illegal. =A0You can't have a vector that is
> >partially assigned and partially opened. =A0I opened a feature
> >suggestion to the VHDL standards group several years back to have that
> >changed.
>
> >KJ
>
> Wouldn't the open port vectors just take on their default value? =A0The
> "open" just tells that I am not connecting anything to it. =A0
>

Not if the compiler follows the VHDL language specification.  Per the
language specification VHDL-2002, section 1.1.1.2 Ports..."It is an
error if some of the subelements of a composite formal port are
connected and others are either unconnected or unassociated".

Sample code demonstrating this is shown below (1)

> I am using Xilinx ISE 10.1 and I was able to implement my design with
> something similar to above. =A0
>

If true, this would be a bug in ISE 10.1. On the other hand, it might
also be an example of brand X getting ahead of the curve and
implementing something ahead of a requested (and apparently lost)
change to the language standard (2)

Kevin Jennings

(1)  Sample code showing usage of opens on vector subelements

--- START OF CODE
entity Widget is port(
    Some_Input: in  bit_vector(1 to 10) :=3D (others =3D> '0'));
end Widget;

entity Use_A_Widget is port(
    Some_Input: in  bit_vector(1 to 3));
end Use_A_Widget;

architecture RTL of Use_A_Widget is
begin
    The_Widget : entity work.Widget port map(
        Some_Input(1 to 3)  =3D> Some_Input(1 to 3),
        Some_Input(4 to 10) =3D> open);
end RTL;
---END OF CODE

Because the language standard demands it, Modelsim appropriately
produces the following error when compiling the above code

# ** Error: C:/Tools/Quartus.900/quartus/Junk/Junk.vhd(446):
(vcom-1046) Formal "some_input" must not be associated with OPEN when
subelements are associated individually.
# ** Error: C:/Tools/Quartus.900/quartus/Junk/Junk.vhd(446): VHDL
Compiler exiting
# C:/Tools/modeltech_pe_6.4/win32pe/vcom failed.

(2) This feature to allow opens on subelements has been submitted to
the VHDL language standards people as an enhancement request to the
language.  This was done back ~2005 and subsequently lost.  It was
resubmitted as bug #275 in August, 2009 and seems to have been lost
yet again....sigh...

Reference to the thread when I created the bug #275 request in August
2009 as a replacement for the lost one from 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.fpga/browse_frm/thread/bb6a2156d4d=
e81ac/fe0fb11716a8baa1?hl=3Den&lnk=3Dgst&q=3DKevin+Jennings+Bugzilla#fe0fb1=
1716a8baa1

Article: 148737
Subject: Re: CE compliance testing
From: "Michael Kellett" <nospam@nospam.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:21:41 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

"Nico Coesel" <nico@puntnl.niks> wrote in message 
news:4c6c3aef.2204064734@news.planet.nl...
> <fredxx@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>
>>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on
>>an affordable solution.
>
> If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
> putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
> sticker says you take responsibility for the product.
>
> If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
> company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
> will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
> analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.
>
> This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
> http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html
>
> If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
> ofcourse).
>
> The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.
>
> -- 
> Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
> indicates you are not using the right tools...
> nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
> --------------------------------------------------------------

The two replies above do not accurately reflect the practical and legal 
situation in the UK with regard to CE marking.
You can just put a sticker on your product and a declaration (mandatory) in 
the manual and you may get away with it. If your product is investigated and 
does not comply with the regulations then when they discover that you have 
done no testing at all Trading Standards (the UK authority which enforces CE 
marking of electrical and electronic devices) will throw the book at you.
If you have done proper testing and have some evidence (in which case it is 
unlikely that you will have any problems anyway) they will discuss the issue 
with you in a sensible way and give you time to fix things.

You need to test for radiated RF emmissions, susceptibility, electrostatic 
discharge susceptibility (8kV sparks to any exposed part), power surges from 
anins or power supply. If you are connected to the mains you must also test 
for mains pollution as well.
You must also comply with ROHS and WEEE regulations.

A lot of small organisations don't bother with some or all of this - for 
obvious reasons. If you are going to spend money its worth going to a decent 
lab who will advise you about what you need to do. If you are short of cash 
then you should understand the rules yourself.

My experience is that it is unusual for a device to pass all the tests 
without some tweaks to the design.

I don't know your circumstances but my advice is that you are taking a big 
risk with customers and enforcers if you are going te sell a lot of stuff 
and don't test.
If you are selling a few parts you have a good chance of getting away with 
it - but you are screwing your customers by claiming things which you 
haven't tested and they will never forgive you if they find out.

I'ts all horrible - good luck.

Michael Kellett









Article: 148738
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: Andrew Feldhaus <Reply@thread.pls>
Date: 19 Aug 2010 09:00:16 +0100 (BST)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:54:45 +0100, Michael Kellett wrote:

> <rupertlssmith@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:2557f9e5-e8ed-451a-
b716-1e7954f56f39@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> These books seems to get a lot of good reviews:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-VHDL-Examples-Spartan-3/
dp/0470185317/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-1
> http://www.amazon.com/FPGA-Prototyping-Verilog-Examples-Spartan-3/
dp/0470185325/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282133861&sr=8-8
> 

I have a copy of Pong Chu's "FPGA Prototyping by VHDL Examples - 
(Spartan-3 version)" mentioned above (ISBN: 987-0-470-18531-5) and it 
seems to be a pretty thorough starting point for a newcomer with 
synthesis aspirations.  It's perhaps a little narrow, and focusses on 
Xilinx examples but it's probably what I'd have started with if I'd 
spotted it at the time.

I started out with the well-known "VHDL Programming by Example" (ISBN: 
978-0-07-049944-7) by Douglas Perry which is a more thorough explanation 
of VHDL (i.e. not limited to the subset of VHDL that may be synthesised 
as Chu's book tends to be).  That said, it is slower going.  Its index is 
rather better than the Chu (which is one page), making it handier for 
looking up bits of syntax.

I have also been reading "Reconfigurable Computing" -- essentially a 
collection of contributions from many authors on the subject, covering 
everything from the internal processes of FPGA synthesisers (at length) 
to application design techniques all the way to advanced topics like 
genetic design and the future of FPGAs and nanotechnology.  It's edited 
by Scott Huack and André Dehon (ISBN 978-0-12-370522-8).  It's a bit of a 
tome but very, very broad.

So IMVHO (YMMV), plump for the Chu (VHDL version ;).


Andrew
0xADF

Article: 148739
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: "rupertlssmith@googlemail.com" <rupertlssmith@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Aug 19, 1:17=A0am, Symon <symon_bre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> For every nice reply, it's important to have a dissenting one. The OP
> post's IP (NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.15.253.202) resolves to something
> called IBM regus UK. Whatever that is. Seems to be some kind of
> training. I would suggest that 'Rupert' could be best served by asking
> his trainers the answer to his query. Especially if the prices listed
> match the course 'Rupert' is on. Anyway, IBM regus has gotta be better
> than Doulos, right?
>
> Cheers, Syms.

I work in an office rented in a building owned by Regus (in Manchester
in the UK), no idea what IBM has to do with Regus, but there you go.

I've nothing to hide. I work as a Java programmer for a company that
produces software for stock markets and traders, an area where FPGAs
are gaining ground if and when they can provide a speed advantage. Its
a bit of an arms race really; why all this need to go faster? to beat
the competition. As I said in my OP, I'm not looking into FPGAs with a
specific application in mind. Maybe somewhere down the line it might
become a work project, if it could be proved to give a speed
advantage, if there's the time and funding to do it and so on. In that
case, I would likely still be on the software side and someone who
knows what they are doing would do the hardware.

For now, I just want to take it up as a hobby and learn something
about it and have some fun doing it.


Article: 148740
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: "rupertlssmith@googlemail.com" <rupertlssmith@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:11:33 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Aug 18, 7:21=A0pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
...
> There are open-source simulators out there, but the FPGA companies are
> pretty tight with their synthesis algorithms (and even the mapping
> between the bit files and the FPGA functions), so you won't find any
> open-source synthesizers.
...
> The FPGA is soldered down to the board. =A0During early development you
> fire things up and write bit files directly to the chip (at least in the
> Xilinx workflow) with a JTAG programmer. =A0FPGA chips (at least those
> that don't have on-board PROM) are capable of loading configurations
> from EEPROM, and most development boards will have a suitable EEPROM
> that you can load your bit file onto so the board will come up by itself.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for this introductory overview of the process, very helpful
indeed.

One question about the specifics on programming the synthesized data
onto the chip: This is generally achieved through a JTAG port, with a
cable that goes from the USB port (serial/parallel ports on older
models), through a box of tricks, and out onto a JTAG connector. Is
this cable specific to each vendor or is the USB -> JTAG conversion
standard accross all? If I buy a cable from Xilinx, will it work on
all boards with Xilinx chips, no matter where I buy the board? I
notice that some of the sites offering prototyping boards also sell a
cable. The cables are a significant cost, so I'd like to make sure I
get the right cable with the maximum usability across different
boards.

Rupert

Article: 148741
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I asked the office to check as the website stock levels are not
totally live and accurate and we have had a run of sales on these
lately. We have 2 Hollybush1 HB1-400C and 1 HB1-1500C and we can make
more on our assembly line fairly quickly as we have stock for all of
the parts for them.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 18 Aug, 23:54, "Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hmmm i agree that if that board was intended to be used on a normal
> computer PCIe would be a much better option, but it is just a intermediat=
e
> board becouse the final one is going to be used on a PC/104+ board that
> does not have PCIe. But so for i do not have the PC/104 processor board.
>
> The cheappest board they sell at Enterpoint got a good price, $225 + VAT
> but they are out of stock. They sell a PCI/104 board too.. that is a very
> useful information. I am going to develop myself a PCI bridge to FPGA so =
i
> wont have to pay for any IP. I am taking as reference a IP core that i
> found at OpenCores.
>
> And finaly i am using quickswiths myself to make the board universal. To
> have a only 3.3V board would be a problem as many computers have 5V only
> PCI bus. Thank you for all the sugestions and answers guys. If some one
> else knows any available board with that price i am still accepting
> sugestions. I will put all my efforts on making my board double layers, b=
ut
> at the final board it is going to be 4 layers anyway.
>
> Cya =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
>
> --------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> Posted throughhttp://www.FPGARelated.com


Article: 148742
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: "RCIngham" <robert.ingham@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 04:39:06 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
>
>I am going to develop myself a PCI bridge to FPGA so i
>wont have to pay for any IP. I am taking as reference a IP core that i
>found at OpenCores. 
>

"Good luck with that!"

From personal experience, PCI is a rather tricky standard to design to.

	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.FPGARelated.com

Article: 148743
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: Symon <symon_brewer@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:26:10 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 8/19/2010 10:03 AM, rupertlssmith@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Aug 19, 1:17 am, Symon<symon_bre...@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>> For every nice reply, it's important to have a dissenting one. The OP
>> post's IP (NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.15.253.202) resolves to something
>> called IBM regus UK. Whatever that is. Seems to be some kind of
>> training. I would suggest that 'Rupert' could be best served by asking
>> his trainers the answer to his query. Especially if the prices listed
>> match the course 'Rupert' is on. Anyway, IBM regus has gotta be better
>> than Doulos, right?
>>
>> Cheers, Syms.
>
> I work in an office rented in a building owned by Regus (in Manchester
> in the UK), no idea what IBM has to do with Regus, but there you go.
>
> I've nothing to hide. I work as a Java programmer for a company that
> produces software for stock markets and traders, an area where FPGAs
> are gaining ground if and when they can provide a speed advantage. Its
> a bit of an arms race really; why all this need to go faster? to beat
> the competition. As I said in my OP, I'm not looking into FPGAs with a
> specific application in mind. Maybe somewhere down the line it might
> become a work project, if it could be proved to give a speed
> advantage, if there's the time and funding to do it and so on. In that
> case, I would likely still be on the software side and someone who
> knows what they are doing would do the hardware.
>
> For now, I just want to take it up as a hobby and learn something
> about it and have some fun doing it.
>

I take it all back!

Article: 148744
Subject: Re: FPGA PCI BOARD .. Few Questions
From: "Sink0" <sink00@n_o_s_p_a_m.n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:24:33 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
>I asked the office to check as the website stock levels are not
>totally live and accurate and we have had a run of sales on these
>lately. We have 2 Hollybush1 HB1-400C and 1 HB1-1500C and we can make
>more on our assembly line fairly quickly as we have stock for all of
>the parts for them.
>


Thank you very much for the information. I am going to talk with my other
team members to discuss that. Can you answer me if you can write down on
the bill a lower price than the board cost? Thats becouse i live in Brazil
and here i would have to pay 88% of taxes to goverment.. My second problem
would be that i still need a Xilinx USB download cable (we do not have any
paralel potr available). A clone would cost me $80 with my usual chinese
eletronic supplier.. thats something i must take in consideration becouse
we already have an Altera one.

Thank you very much for all the answers!!	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.FPGARelated.com

Article: 148745
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: "Nial Stewart" <nial*REMOVE_THIS*@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:36:48 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
> I take it all back!

All of the sarcy comments, ever?

:-)


Nial. 



Article: 148746
Subject: Re: Getting started with FPGA
From: Bryan <bryan.fletcher@avnet.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 06:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Aug 18, 8:07=A0am, "rupertlssm...@googlemail.com"
<rupertlssm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> What about books? Can anyone recommend a good book to get started
> with?

This is not an HDL book but provides an overview of the Xilinx design
process.  Free to download at:
  http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/boards_and_kits/ug500.pdf

Xilinx also has an in-depth tutorial which is good to start with:
  http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/dt_ise12-2_tutorials.htm

There should also be introductory tutorials for whatever board that
you buy.  Check out the board documentation first before you buy.

My favorite book is HDL Chip Design by Douglas J. Smith.  It has both
Verilog and VHDL code side-by-side and often shows a circuit
representation of how the code synthesizes.  It's more of an example
book then a reference book, but I like it.

Bryan

Article: 148747
Subject: Re: CE compliance testing
From: "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:11:58 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

"General Schvantzkoph" <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:8d2mieFco2U4@mid.individual.net...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:11:21 +0100, Fredxx wrote:
>
>> I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>
>> Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice
>> on an affordable solution.
>
> You should contact a certification lab in your area. CE and UL are mostly
> a lot of paperwork with a small amount of actual testing. They are
> designed to be fee generators, and in CEs case trade barriers, do there
> isn't going to be a cheap way to do it. FCC is easier because it's based
> on physics not on the whims of bureaucrats, you can do FCC certification
> in a few hours because it's just a matter of measuring the emissions of
> the system, you are either within bounds or not.
>

I have, and we're talking about £1,500 just for a pre-test, and £3,000 for 
final testing and documents.  £300 just for a plots is OTT.



Article: 148748
Subject: Re: CE compliance testing
From: "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:16:10 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

"Nico Coesel" <nico@puntnl.niks> wrote in message 
news:4c6c3aef.2204064734@news.planet.nl...
> <fredxx@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>
>>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on
>>an affordable solution.
>
> If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
> putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
> sticker says you take responsibility for the product.
>
> If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
> company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
> will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
> analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.
>
> This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
> http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html
>
> If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
> ofcourse).
>
> The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.
>

I am aware that you can self certify, but I wanted to collate some evidence 
that it would actually pass the EMC requirements, especially for radiated 
emissions.  I'm very confident about the rest.

I can see the cost of a spectrum analyser is a fraction of the cost of any 
assessment or testing by an EMC lab.  Many thanks for the pointer and am 
looking on eBay for suitable equipment.

One thing that does bother me still, is sourcing wideband aerials suitable 
for measure field strength.

Many thanks.



Article: 148749
Subject: Re: CE compliance testing
From: "Fredxx" <fredxx@spam.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:21:07 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

"Michael Kellett" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:VtWdnRCx4Ob0RvHRnZ2dnUVZ8lqdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Nico Coesel" <nico@puntnl.niks> wrote in message 
> news:4c6c3aef.2204064734@news.planet.nl...
>> <fredxx@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>>
>>>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice 
>>>on
>>>an affordable solution.
>>
>> If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
>> putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
>> sticker says you take responsibility for the product.
>>
>> If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
>> company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
>> will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
>> analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.
>>
>> This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
>> http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html
>>
>> If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
>> ofcourse).
>>
>> The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.
>>
>> -- 
>> Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
>> indicates you are not using the right tools...
>> nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The two replies above do not accurately reflect the practical and legal 
> situation in the UK with regard to CE marking.
> You can just put a sticker on your product and a declaration (mandatory) 
> in the manual and you may get away with it. If your product is 
> investigated and does not comply with the regulations then when they 
> discover that you have done no testing at all Trading Standards (the UK 
> authority which enforces CE marking of electrical and electronic devices) 
> will throw the book at you.
> If you have done proper testing and have some evidence (in which case it 
> is unlikely that you will have any problems anyway) they will discuss the 
> issue with you in a sensible way and give you time to fix things.

That is perhaps the primary reason I want some evidence of compliance 
testing.

> You need to test for radiated RF emmissions, susceptibility, electrostatic 
> discharge susceptibility (8kV sparks to any exposed part), power surges 
> from anins or power supply. If you are connected to the mains you must 
> also test for mains pollution as well.
> You must also comply with ROHS and WEEE regulations.
>

ROHS is easy to comply with if sourcing known components from reputable 
companies.

> A lot of small organisations don't bother with some or all of this - for 
> obvious reasons. If you are going to spend money its worth going to a 
> decent lab who will advise you about what you need to do. If you are short 
> of cash then you should understand the rules yourself.
>
> My experience is that it is unusual for a device to pass all the tests 
> without some tweaks to the design.
>

That is the concern!!

> I don't know your circumstances but my advice is that you are taking a big 
> risk with customers and enforcers if you are going te sell a lot of stuff 
> and don't test.
> If you are selling a few parts you have a good chance of getting away with 
> it - but you are screwing your customers by claiming things which you 
> haven't tested and they will never forgive you if they find out.
>
> I'ts all horrible - good luck.

Many thanks.





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