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Messages from 159400

Article: 159400
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:45:11 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>
>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>
>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software
>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>
>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or
>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>
>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows
>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>
>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free
>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making
>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>
>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to
>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use
>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>
>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.  But no
>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine.
>
> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how it would
> work with filters and such for my regular email.

Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
everything else) access.

Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)


 > Eudora is a great program, but
> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.

ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
with all attachments in the same directory. If two
attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
doh!

But that was from 15 years ago.


Article: 159401
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 14:55:39 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>
>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software
>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>
>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or
>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>
>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows
>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>
>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>> "free
>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making
>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>>
>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to
>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use
>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>
>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.  But no
>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine.
>>
>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how
>> it would
>> work with filters and such for my regular email.
>
> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
> everything else) access.

Whatever that means.  I'm talking about the user interface.  I expect 
the internals to work the same.

At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work 
alike, Penelope.  I think it was never completed.  Probably found there 
was little benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.


> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)
>
>
>> Eudora is a great program, but
>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>
> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
> with all attachments in the same directory. If two
> attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
> doh!

No, duplicate file names happen all the time.  They add a digit to the 
subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email.

The problem I have is trying to cull the directory.  If I move useful 
files elsewhere the email points to a null file.  If I leave them in 
place the numbers get huge over years!  It is nearly impossible to 
delete all the crap.  Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML 
emails.


> But that was from 15 years ago.
>

-- 

Rick C

Article: 159402
Subject: Re: verilog code
From: Tim Wescott <seemywebsite@myfooter.really>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 15:51:24 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 02:52:54 -0700, koradaprudvi wrote:

> hi,
> 
> i want verilog code for RS232

I did a quick search on Opencores, and found dozens.

A basic UART with a fixed data rate is so easy that even I can make one.  
Making one that gives you configureable this and that via registers is 
harder, but straightforward.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I'm looking for work -- see my website!

Article: 159403
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:26:26 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software
>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or
>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows
>>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>>
>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>>> "free
>>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making
>>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to
>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use
>>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.  But no
>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine.
>>>
>>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how
>>> it would
>>> work with filters and such for my regular email.
>>
>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
>> everything else) access.
>
> Whatever that means.  I'm talking about the user interface.  I expect the
> internals to work the same.

So am I, and I don't care, respectively.

IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case
google disappears), and leaves the original on the google
server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing
more complex searches.

POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them
on the server.


> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work alike,
> Penelope.  I think it was never completed.  Probably found there was little
> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.
>
>
>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)
>>
>>
>>> Eudora is a great program, but
>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>
>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two
>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
>> doh!
>
> No, duplicate file names happen all the time.  They add a digit to the
> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email.
>
> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory.  If I move useful files
> elsewhere the email points to a null file.  If I leave them in place the numbers
> get huge over years!  It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap.
> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.

Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up,
avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple
entirely different tools can read the same format. If
I want to extract a single message including attachments,
then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and
hey presto there it is.

I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something
simple like that.

The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains
10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey
has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why
I swapped)

Article: 159404
Subject: Re: verilog code
From: rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:43:11 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/24/2016 4:51 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 02:52:54 -0700, koradaprudvi wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> i want verilog code for RS232
>
> I did a quick search on Opencores, and found dozens.
>
> A basic UART with a fixed data rate is so easy that even I can make one.
> Making one that gives you configureable this and that via registers is
> harder, but straightforward.

Lol, even *you*?

-- 

Rick C

Article: 159405
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:49:06 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG,
>>>>>>> BMP or
>>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps,
>>>>>>> arrows
>>>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>>>> "free
>>>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in
>>>>>> making
>>>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the
>>>>>> wayside to
>>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.
>>>>>> But no
>>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new
>>>>>> machine.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how
>>>> it would
>>>> work with filters and such for my regular email.
>>>
>>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
>>> everything else) access.
>>
>> Whatever that means.  I'm talking about the user interface.  I expect the
>> internals to work the same.
>
> So am I, and I don't care, respectively.
>
> IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case
> google disappears), and leaves the original on the google
> server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing
> more complex searches.
>
> POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them
> on the server.

Yes, I'm familiar with the two.  But that isn't the user interface.  All 
email programs use one or the other or either of the protocols.  But 
they have different user interfaces.


>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work
>> alike,
>> Penelope.  I think it was never completed.  Probably found there was
>> little
>> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.
>>
>>
>>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
>>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
>>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
>>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Eudora is a great program, but
>>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>>
>>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
>>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two
>>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
>>> doh!
>>
>> No, duplicate file names happen all the time.  They add a digit to the
>> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email.
>>
>> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory.  If I move useful
>> files
>> elsewhere the email points to a null file.  If I leave them in place
>> the numbers
>> get huge over years!  It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap.
>> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.
>
> Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up,
> avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple
> entirely different tools can read the same format. If
> I want to extract a single message including attachments,
> then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and
> hey presto there it is.

I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr 
implementation detail that a user won't be aware of.  I assume you are 
saying Eudora didn't do the best job on this feature.


> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something
> simple like that.

Complexity???  What's complex?


> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains
> 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey
> has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why
> I swapped)

I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar.  Both have some 
issues, but mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward.  I 
find it freezes for some seconds periodically, even while typing.  There 
is no need for that really.

I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird.  What would 
it take to switch?  Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird 
and the account setups including the newsgroup stuff?

-- 

Rick C

Article: 159406
Subject: Re: verilog code
From: Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:10:49 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:43:11 -0400, rickman wrote:

> On 10/24/2016 4:51 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 02:52:54 -0700, koradaprudvi wrote:
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> i want verilog code for RS232
>>
>> I did a quick search on Opencores, and found dozens.
>>
>> A basic UART with a fixed data rate is so easy that even I can make
>> one.
>> Making one that gives you configureable this and that via registers is
>> harder, but straightforward.
> 
> Lol, even *you*?

Even me.  One of the two times I've done HDL for money I had a UART in 
there sending decoded information to a computer.

(I was reading call progress information off of someone's PBX -- that's 
all I can remember, though).

-- 
www.wescottdesign.com

Article: 159407
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 01:19:56 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 25/10/16 00:49, rickman wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
>>>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing
>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG,
>>>>>>>> BMP or
>>>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps,
>>>>>>>> arrows
>>>>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>>>>> "free
>>>>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in
>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the
>>>>>>> wayside to
>>>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.
>>>>>>> But no
>>>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new
>>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how
>>>>> it would
>>>>> work with filters and such for my regular email.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
>>>> everything else) access.
>>>
>>> Whatever that means.  I'm talking about the user interface.  I expect the
>>> internals to work the same.
>>
>> So am I, and I don't care, respectively.
>>
>> IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case
>> google disappears), and leaves the original on the google
>> server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing
>> more complex searches.
>>
>> POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them
>> on the server.
>
> Yes, I'm familiar with the two.  But that isn't the user interface.  All email
> programs use one or the other or either of the protocols.  But they have
> different user interfaces.

The GUIs are the same. The semantics are /slightly/
different, but that's directly understandable from
the high-level POP3/IMAP philosophy of where the
files are stored.



>>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work
>>> alike,
>>> Penelope.  I think it was never completed.  Probably found there was
>>> little
>>> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
>>>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
>>>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
>>>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Eudora is a great program, but
>>>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>>>
>>>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
>>>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two
>>>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
>>>> doh!
>>>
>>> No, duplicate file names happen all the time.  They add a digit to the
>>> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email.
>>>
>>> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory.  If I move useful
>>> files
>>> elsewhere the email points to a null file.  If I leave them in place
>>> the numbers
>>> get huge over years!  It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap.
>>> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.
>>
>> Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up,
>> avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple
>> entirely different tools can read the same format. If
>> I want to extract a single message including attachments,
>> then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and
>> hey presto there it is.
>
> I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr implementation
> detail that a user won't be aware of.  I assume you are saying Eudora didn't do
> the best job on this feature.
>
>
>> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something
>> simple like that.
>
> Complexity???  What's complex?
>
>
>> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains
>> 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey
>> has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why
>> I swapped)
>
> I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar.  Both have some issues, but
> mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward.  I find it freezes for
> some seconds periodically, even while typing.  There is no need for that really.

Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it
is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files.
That happened suddenly from one TB release to another,
and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives
such as Eudora.

I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly
the same problem, but it doesn't.

Of course, when I compress the mbox (before archiving
it) that account freezes while the 1GB file is copied
at 50MB/s. Other accounts and newsgroups keep working,
so I assume a degree of multithreading.


> I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird.  What would it take
> to switch?  Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird and the account
> setups including the newsgroup stuff?

Yes, with 99.5% probability. I suspect you could
flip between the two on the same directory tree,
but prudence dictates copying the directory tree.
On my machine that is
~/.mozilla/seamonkey/k7xa5cev.default/
Note the similarity in naming conventions!

Download seamonkey, copy tree, try it, see
what you think.


Article: 159408
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 22:19:46 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/24/2016 8:19 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 25/10/16 00:49, rickman wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing
>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG,
>>>>>>>>> BMP or
>>>>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps,
>>>>>>>>> arrows
>>>>>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>>>>>> "free
>>>>>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in
>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open
>>>>>>>> source?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the
>>>>>>>> wayside to
>>>>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only
>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.
>>>>>>>> But no
>>>>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new
>>>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how
>>>>>> it would
>>>>>> work with filters and such for my regular email.
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
>>>>> everything else) access.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever that means.  I'm talking about the user interface.  I
>>>> expect the
>>>> internals to work the same.
>>>
>>> So am I, and I don't care, respectively.
>>>
>>> IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case
>>> google disappears), and leaves the original on the google
>>> server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing
>>> more complex searches.
>>>
>>> POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them
>>> on the server.
>>
>> Yes, I'm familiar with the two.  But that isn't the user interface.
>> All email
>> programs use one or the other or either of the protocols.  But they have
>> different user interfaces.
>
> The GUIs are the same. The semantics are /slightly/
> different, but that's directly understandable from
> the high-level POP3/IMAP philosophy of where the
> files are stored.

At this point I think we are not communicating.  I am talking about the 
user interface of an email program.  I've never seen two the same.  I 
think you are still talking about the protocols although I don't know 
how you can relate the protocol to a user interface.

My point is all email programs work without the user knowing anything 
about the protocol.  It has little impact on the user interface other 
than error and/or status messages.  Eudora gives a bit more info by 
showing the several stages involved in getting the email, but that is 
not central to the user interface.


>>>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work
>>>> alike,
>>>> Penelope.  I think it was never completed.  Probably found there was
>>>> little
>>>> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
>>>>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
>>>>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
>>>>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eudora is a great program, but
>>>>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
>>>>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two
>>>>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
>>>>> doh!
>>>>
>>>> No, duplicate file names happen all the time.  They add a digit to the
>>>> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email.
>>>>
>>>> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory.  If I move useful
>>>> files
>>>> elsewhere the email points to a null file.  If I leave them in place
>>>> the numbers
>>>> get huge over years!  It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap.
>>>> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.
>>>
>>> Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up,
>>> avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple
>>> entirely different tools can read the same format. If
>>> I want to extract a single message including attachments,
>>> then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and
>>> hey presto there it is.
>>
>> I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr
>> implementation
>> detail that a user won't be aware of.  I assume you are saying Eudora
>> didn't do
>> the best job on this feature.
>>
>>
>>> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something
>>> simple like that.
>>
>> Complexity???  What's complex?
>>
>>
>>> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains
>>> 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey
>>> has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why
>>> I swapped)
>>
>> I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar.  Both have some
>> issues, but
>> mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward.  I find it
>> freezes for
>> some seconds periodically, even while typing.  There is no need for
>> that really.
>
> Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it
> is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files.
> That happened suddenly from one TB release to another,
> and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives
> such as Eudora.
>
> I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly
> the same problem, but it doesn't.

I was just going to ask...


> Of course, when I compress the mbox (before archiving
> it) that account freezes while the 1GB file is copied
> at 50MB/s. Other accounts and newsgroups keep working,
> so I assume a degree of multithreading.
>
>
>> I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird.  What would
>> it take
>> to switch?  Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird and the
>> account
>> setups including the newsgroup stuff?
>
> Yes, with 99.5% probability. I suspect you could
> flip between the two on the same directory tree,
> but prudence dictates copying the directory tree.
> On my machine that is
> ~/.mozilla/seamonkey/k7xa5cev.default/
> Note the similarity in naming conventions!
>
> Download seamonkey, copy tree, try it, see
> what you think.

Maybe I will.  Does it have anything like Lightning for a calendar program?

-- 

Rick C

Article: 159409
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:09:40 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 25/10/16 02:19, Tom Gardner wrote:

> Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it
> is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files.
> That happened suddenly from one TB release to another,
> and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives
> such as Eudora.
> 
> I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly
> the same problem, but it doesn't.
> 

I see "long pauses" in older versions of Thunderbird (with an older
Linux installation), but no such problems with newer versions of
Thunderbird.  Maybe it is quite simply a problem that has been fixed,
and your Seamonkey happens to have avoided the problem that existed in
some versions of the underlying Mozilla libraries.



Article: 159410
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 03:20:09 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/25/2016 3:09 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 25/10/16 02:19, Tom Gardner wrote:
>
>> Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it
>> is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files.
>> That happened suddenly from one TB release to another,
>> and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives
>> such as Eudora.
>>
>> I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly
>> the same problem, but it doesn't.
>>
>
> I see "long pauses" in older versions of Thunderbird (with an older
> Linux installation), but no such problems with newer versions of
> Thunderbird.  Maybe it is quite simply a problem that has been fixed,
> and your Seamonkey happens to have avoided the problem that existed in
> some versions of the underlying Mozilla libraries.

I'm running the current version and I still see plenty of delays.  45.4.0

-- 

Rick C

Article: 159411
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 08:29:55 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 25/10/16 08:09, David Brown wrote:
> On 25/10/16 02:19, Tom Gardner wrote:
>
>> Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it
>> is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files.
>> That happened suddenly from one TB release to another,
>> and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives
>> such as Eudora.
>>
>> I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly
>> the same problem, but it doesn't.
>>
>
> I see "long pauses" in older versions of Thunderbird (with an older
> Linux installation), but no such problems with newer versions of
> Thunderbird.  Maybe it is quite simply a problem that has been fixed,
> and your Seamonkey happens to have avoided the problem that existed in
> some versions of the underlying Mozilla libraries.

That is entirely possible.

I saw the problem persist for several TB iterations,
and since Seamonkey avoided them, I abandoned TB and
haven't found a reason to go back.

If Seamonkey disappeared or became problematical,
TB would be my first port of call.


Article: 159412
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 08:46:15 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 25/10/16 03:19, rickman wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 8:19 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> On 25/10/16 00:49, rickman wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote:
>>>>> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG,
>>>>>>>>>> BMP or
>>>>>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps,
>>>>>>>>>> arrows
>>>>>>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>>>>>>> "free
>>>>>>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in
>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open
>>>>>>>>> source?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the
>>>>>>>>> wayside to
>>>>>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only
>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>>>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>>>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.
>>>>>>>>> But no
>>>>>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new
>>>>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how
>>>>>>> it would
>>>>>>> work with filters and such for my regular email.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
>>>>>> everything else) access.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever that means.  I'm talking about the user interface.  I
>>>>> expect the
>>>>> internals to work the same.
>>>>
>>>> So am I, and I don't care, respectively.
>>>>
>>>> IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case
>>>> google disappears), and leaves the original on the google
>>>> server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing
>>>> more complex searches.
>>>>
>>>> POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them
>>>> on the server.
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm familiar with the two.  But that isn't the user interface.
>>> All email
>>> programs use one or the other or either of the protocols.  But they have
>>> different user interfaces.
>>
>> The GUIs are the same. The semantics are /slightly/
>> different, but that's directly understandable from
>> the high-level POP3/IMAP philosophy of where the
>> files are stored.
>
> At this point I think we are not communicating.  I am talking about the user
> interface of an email program.  I've never seen two the same.  I think you are
> still talking about the protocols although I don't know how you can relate the
> protocol to a user interface.

Sigh. GUI=what you see. Semantics=what happens
when you interact with the GUI.

I repeat: the GUIs are the same for Seamonkey
and Thunderbird, for IMAP and POP3.

The principal difference between IMAP and POP3 is that
in IMAP the messages are stored and synced between
your machine and the email server. There is thus, *of*
*necessity*, a *semantic* difference between the two.

The semantic differences do *not* appear in the GUI
operations, widgets, etc, and can only be *seen*
in almost imperceptible and unimportant differences
to do with copying messages.

Try it. In TB, create two accounts and set the server
settings to POP3 and IMAP. Have a look at the GUIs:
they are the same.


> My point is all email programs work without the user knowing anything about the
> protocol.  It has little impact on the user interface other than error and/or
> status messages.  Eudora gives a bit more info by showing the several stages
> involved in getting the email, but that is not central to the user interface.

Yes. What's the problem? The IMAP and POP3
GUIs are the same.


>>>>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work
>>>>> alike,
>>>>> Penelope.  I think it was never completed.  Probably found there was
>>>>> little
>>>>> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
>>>>>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
>>>>>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
>>>>>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eudora is a great program, but
>>>>>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
>>>>>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two
>>>>>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
>>>>>> doh!
>>>>>
>>>>> No, duplicate file names happen all the time.  They add a digit to the
>>>>> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory.  If I move useful
>>>>> files
>>>>> elsewhere the email points to a null file.  If I leave them in place
>>>>> the numbers
>>>>> get huge over years!  It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap.
>>>>> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.
>>>>
>>>> Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up,
>>>> avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple
>>>> entirely different tools can read the same format. If
>>>> I want to extract a single message including attachments,
>>>> then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and
>>>> hey presto there it is.
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr
>>> implementation
>>> detail that a user won't be aware of.  I assume you are saying Eudora
>>> didn't do
>>> the best job on this feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something
>>>> simple like that.
>>>
>>> Complexity???  What's complex?
>>>
>>>
>>>> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains
>>>> 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey
>>>> has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why
>>>> I swapped)
>>>
>>> I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar.  Both have some
>>> issues, but
>>> mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward.  I find it
>>> freezes for
>>> some seconds periodically, even while typing.  There is no need for
>>> that really.
>>
>> Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it
>> is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files.
>> That happened suddenly from one TB release to another,
>> and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives
>> such as Eudora.
>>
>> I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly
>> the same problem, but it doesn't.
>
> I was just going to ask...
>
>
>> Of course, when I compress the mbox (before archiving
>> it) that account freezes while the 1GB file is copied
>> at 50MB/s. Other accounts and newsgroups keep working,
>> so I assume a degree of multithreading.
>>
>>
>>> I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird.  What would
>>> it take
>>> to switch?  Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird and the
>>> account
>>> setups including the newsgroup stuff?
>>
>> Yes, with 99.5% probability. I suspect you could
>> flip between the two on the same directory tree,
>> but prudence dictates copying the directory tree.
>> On my machine that is
>> ~/.mozilla/seamonkey/k7xa5cev.default/
>> Note the similarity in naming conventions!
>>
>> Download seamonkey, copy tree, try it, see
>> what you think.
>
> Maybe I will.  Does it have anything like Lightning for a calendar program?

No idea what that is, I use tkremind.
But see http://tinyurl.com/jn7rlfb



Article: 159413
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date: 25 Oct 2016 13:40:33 +0100 (BST)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free 
> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making 
> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?

What's odd is the way it's built for Windows, and the solution to run on
Linux or Mac is to use WINE.  But it's implemented in wxPython, which is a
cross-platform library.  So it should be straightforward to run natively on
Mac and Linux.  Maybe the author doesn't have a system to test, but I'm sure
the 'open source community' (whoever that might be) could help out with
that.

Theo

Article: 159414
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:46:06 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/25/2016 3:46 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 25/10/16 03:19, rickman wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 8:19 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>> On 25/10/16 00:49, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>>>>>>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing
>>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>>>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG,
>>>>>>>>>>> BMP or
>>>>>>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps,
>>>>>>>>>>> arrows
>>>>>>>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not
>>>>>>>>>> as in
>>>>>>>>>> "free
>>>>>>>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in
>>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open
>>>>>>>>>> source?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the
>>>>>>>>>> wayside to
>>>>>>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would
>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't
>>>>>>>>>> think I
>>>>>>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop
>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.
>>>>>>>>>> But no
>>>>>>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new
>>>>>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used
>>>>>>>> to how
>>>>>>>> it would
>>>>>>>> work with filters and such for my regular email.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for
>>>>>>> everything else) access.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whatever that means.  I'm talking about the user interface.  I
>>>>>> expect the
>>>>>> internals to work the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> So am I, and I don't care, respectively.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case
>>>>> google disappears), and leaves the original on the google
>>>>> server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing
>>>>> more complex searches.
>>>>>
>>>>> POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them
>>>>> on the server.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm familiar with the two.  But that isn't the user interface.
>>>> All email
>>>> programs use one or the other or either of the protocols.  But they
>>>> have
>>>> different user interfaces.
>>>
>>> The GUIs are the same. The semantics are /slightly/
>>> different, but that's directly understandable from
>>> the high-level POP3/IMAP philosophy of where the
>>> files are stored.
>>
>> At this point I think we are not communicating.  I am talking about
>> the user
>> interface of an email program.  I've never seen two the same.  I think
>> you are
>> still talking about the protocols although I don't know how you can
>> relate the
>> protocol to a user interface.
>
> Sigh. GUI=what you see. Semantics=what happens
> when you interact with the GUI.
>
> I repeat: the GUIs are the same for Seamonkey
> and Thunderbird, for IMAP and POP3.

I have no idea what you are talking about "for IMAP and POP3".  I am 
talking about the overall functioning of the email program.  I have no 
idea why you keep focusing on the protocols.  I won't bother to continue 
to talk past each other.


> The principal difference between IMAP and POP3 is that
> in IMAP the messages are stored and synced between
> your machine and the email server. There is thus, *of*
> *necessity*, a *semantic* difference between the two.
>
> The semantic differences do *not* appear in the GUI
> operations, widgets, etc, and can only be *seen*
> in almost imperceptible and unimportant differences
> to do with copying messages.
>
> Try it. In TB, create two accounts and set the server
> settings to POP3 and IMAP. Have a look at the GUIs:
> they are the same.

I've never said there is any difference between the user interfaces as 
far as the protocols go.  I don't know what you are going on about.


>> My point is all email programs work without the user knowing anything
>> about the
>> protocol.  It has little impact on the user interface other than error
>> and/or
>> status messages.  Eudora gives a bit more info by showing the several
>> stages
>> involved in getting the email, but that is not central to the user
>> interface.
>
> Yes. What's the problem? The IMAP and POP3
> GUIs are the same.

I'm not talking about IMAP and POP3.  I'm talking about different email 
programs.


>>>>>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work
>>>>>> alike,
>>>>>> Penelope.  I think it was never completed.  Probably found there was
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey,
>>>>>>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring
>>>>>>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox
>>>>>>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eudora is a great program, but
>>>>>>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email,
>>>>>>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two
>>>>>>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first,
>>>>>>> doh!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, duplicate file names happen all the time.  They add a digit to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory.  If I move useful
>>>>>> files
>>>>>> elsewhere the email points to a null file.  If I leave them in place
>>>>>> the numbers
>>>>>> get huge over years!  It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap.
>>>>>> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up,
>>>>> avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple
>>>>> entirely different tools can read the same format. If
>>>>> I want to extract a single message including attachments,
>>>>> then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and
>>>>> hey presto there it is.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr
>>>> implementation
>>>> detail that a user won't be aware of.  I assume you are saying Eudora
>>>> didn't do
>>>> the best job on this feature.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something
>>>>> simple like that.
>>>>
>>>> Complexity???  What's complex?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains
>>>>> 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey
>>>>> has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why
>>>>> I swapped)
>>>>
>>>> I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar.  Both have some
>>>> issues, but
>>>> mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward.  I find it
>>>> freezes for
>>>> some seconds periodically, even while typing.  There is no need for
>>>> that really.
>>>
>>> Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it
>>> is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files.
>>> That happened suddenly from one TB release to another,
>>> and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives
>>> such as Eudora.
>>>
>>> I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly
>>> the same problem, but it doesn't.
>>
>> I was just going to ask...
>>
>>
>>> Of course, when I compress the mbox (before archiving
>>> it) that account freezes while the 1GB file is copied
>>> at 50MB/s. Other accounts and newsgroups keep working,
>>> so I assume a degree of multithreading.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird.  What would
>>>> it take
>>>> to switch?  Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird and the
>>>> account
>>>> setups including the newsgroup stuff?
>>>
>>> Yes, with 99.5% probability. I suspect you could
>>> flip between the two on the same directory tree,
>>> but prudence dictates copying the directory tree.
>>> On my machine that is
>>> ~/.mozilla/seamonkey/k7xa5cev.default/
>>> Note the similarity in naming conventions!
>>>
>>> Download seamonkey, copy tree, try it, see
>>> what you think.
>>
>> Maybe I will.  Does it have anything like Lightning for a calendar
>> program?
>
> No idea what that is, I use tkremind.
> But see http://tinyurl.com/jn7rlfb

Lightning used to be a calendar plugin for T-bird (maybe it still is), 
now it comes with T-bird.

-- 

Rick C

Article: 159415
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:47:43 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/25/2016 8:40 AM, Theo Markettos wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free
>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making
>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>
> What's odd is the way it's built for Windows, and the solution to run on
> Linux or Mac is to use WINE.  But it's implemented in wxPython, which is a
> cross-platform library.  So it should be straightforward to run natively on
> Mac and Linux.  Maybe the author doesn't have a system to test, but I'm sure
> the 'open source community' (whoever that might be) could help out with
> that.

But it's not open source, or did I miss something?

-- 

Rick C

Article: 159416
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:08:01 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/24/2016 1:02 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>
>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>
>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software
>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>
>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or
>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>
>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows
>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>
>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free
>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making
>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>
>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to
>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use
>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>
>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.  But no
>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine.
>
> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how it
> would work with filters and such for my regular email.  Eudora is a
> great program, but some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>
I ended having to stop using Eudora, I love it but my ISP started using 
1024 bit Certificates and Eudora could not handle that so I could not 
get my mail. I hated leaving it it works exactly like I wanted it to, 
now I have no choice but to use Thunderbird.

For a while I used a Linux machine for my mail and I used Evolution and 
liked it quite a bit but then they made drastic changes to it and 
actually took out features, My Mac Email was based on Evolution and I 
liked it too but they followed the changes in the Linux version and I 
was disappointed.

I hear Thunderbird is going away, I'm not sure what to do then.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

Article: 159417
Subject: Re: Platform Cable USB II in Windows 7 not Found (ISE 13.4)
From: adikisela@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 21:43:46 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Friday, April 27, 2012 at 1:52:27 AM UTC-7, etantonio wrote:
> Good morning,
> it is the first time I use a XILINX Platform Cable USB II together
> with Windows 7 ,
> the problem is that the cable is not recognized and I've always the
> answer:
> "   WARNING:iMPACT - The cable selected is not avaliable, please
> select a different one.
>     Connecting to cable (Usb Port - USB21).
>      Checking cable driver.
>       Driver file xusb_xp2.sys found.
>       Driver version: src=2301, dest=2301.
>       Driver windrvr6.sys version = 10.2.1.0.Cable connection failed.
> "
> the board I want to program is the Spartan 3A DSP 1800A but I don't
> think is a board problem,
> simply the cable is not recognized from windows 7.
> I'm using Impact 13.4 (nt64) version 0.87 XD
> 
> How can I solve this problem?
> Thanks for your help
> 
> Antonio
> www.etantonio.it

hi all,
i have used windows 7 driver for windows 8,with steps above and it work just fine..Nice..

Article: 159418
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:20:10 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 25/10/16 18:08, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> On 10/24/2016 1:02 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>
>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software
>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>
>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or
>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>
>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows
>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>
>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>> "free
>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making
>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>>
>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to
>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use
>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>
>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.  But no
>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine.
>>
>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how it
>> would work with filters and such for my regular email.  Eudora is a
>> great program, but some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>
> I ended having to stop using Eudora, I love it but my ISP started using
> 1024 bit Certificates and Eudora could not handle that so I could not
> get my mail. I hated leaving it it works exactly like I wanted it to,
> now I have no choice but to use Thunderbird.
> 
> For a while I used a Linux machine for my mail and I used Evolution and
> liked it quite a bit but then they made drastic changes to it and
> actually took out features, My Mac Email was based on Evolution and I
> liked it too but they followed the changes in the Linux version and I
> was disappointed.
> 
> I hear Thunderbird is going away, I'm not sure what to do then.
> 

Thunderbird is not "going away".  That was a rumour started
(intentionally for scandal effect, or just through incompetence - I am
not sure) by an online IT magazine, and copied widely.

The Thunderbird development group are looking for a new "home", and
trying to leave the Mozilla Foundation.  This is not anyone being thrown
out, or a disagreement, nor is it the end of Thunderbird.  It is simply
that the Mozilla folk, the Thunderbird folk and the Firefox folk have
realised that keeping Thunderbird and Firefox development tied together
in the same place hinders both projects.  Moving Thunderbird to
something like the Apache Foundation or The Document Foundation (home of
LibreOffice) would be better for Thunderbird development.



Article: 159419
Subject: Re: Free timing diagram drawing software
From: Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 11:47:25 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 10/26/2016 7:20 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 25/10/16 18:08, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> On 10/24/2016 1:02 PM, rickman wrote:
>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software
>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes,
>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or
>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows
>>>>>> and labels (see attached images).
>>>>>
>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in
>>>>> "free
>>>>> speech", right?  It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making
>>>>> money from this, at least not for now.  Why not make it open source?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to
>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use
>>>>> sporadically.  If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I
>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using
>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch.  But no
>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine.
>>>
>>> Yeah.  I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how it
>>> would work with filters and such for my regular email.  Eudora is a
>>> great program, but some day I won't be able to use it anymore.
>>>
>> I ended having to stop using Eudora, I love it but my ISP started using
>> 1024 bit Certificates and Eudora could not handle that so I could not
>> get my mail. I hated leaving it it works exactly like I wanted it to,
>> now I have no choice but to use Thunderbird.
>>
>> For a while I used a Linux machine for my mail and I used Evolution and
>> liked it quite a bit but then they made drastic changes to it and
>> actually took out features, My Mac Email was based on Evolution and I
>> liked it too but they followed the changes in the Linux version and I
>> was disappointed.
>>
>> I hear Thunderbird is going away, I'm not sure what to do then.
>>
>
> Thunderbird is not "going away".  That was a rumour started
> (intentionally for scandal effect, or just through incompetence - I am
> not sure) by an online IT magazine, and copied widely.
>
> The Thunderbird development group are looking for a new "home", and
> trying to leave the Mozilla Foundation.  This is not anyone being thrown
> out, or a disagreement, nor is it the end of Thunderbird.  It is simply
> that the Mozilla folk, the Thunderbird folk and the Firefox folk have
> realised that keeping Thunderbird and Firefox development tied together
> in the same place hinders both projects.  Moving Thunderbird to
> something like the Apache Foundation or The Document Foundation (home of
> LibreOffice) would be better for Thunderbird development.
>
>
I hope so, Thunderbird is somewhat close to Eudora, and works well for 
me, I have emails going back to 1995 that I keep for reference.

I went from Eudora to Penelope a Eudora Thunderbird mix, to Thunderbird 
and was able to migrate my emails, and tags, I would hate to have to 
change again. I'm not sure if Thunderbird has changed or those upgrades 
makes it different but right now Thunderbird is very close to what 
Eudora was. It has good Rules feature, good search save features, and 
handles multiple accounts and newsgroups well. The one improvement would 
be in the newsgroup account to be able to scan and delete unwanted junk, 
it works well when manually done but will not work automatically to 
delete post from some trolls.



-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

Article: 159420
Subject: The TimingAnalyzer (Timing Diagrams and Analysis)
From: timinganalyzer <timinganalyzer@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 07:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi All,

I created the TimingAnalyzer a long time ago. In the years that have past, the interest in this kind of tool has decreased. I think for the following few reasons.

Engineers use tools from the vendors for timing analysis
There are other tools that can be used to just draw timing diagrams.

If I continue development, I want to focus on the following:

Displaying multiple time scales in one diagram for mixed Analog and Digital diagrams
Creating RTL source code from timing diagrams
Creating SystemVerilog/UVM verification source doc from timing diagrams
Improved VCD support
Improved Python scripting support

I would appreciate your opinions and comments. 

Thanks,
Dan Fabrizio
www.timing-diagrams.com

Article: 159421
Subject: Re: The TimingAnalyzer (Timing Diagrams and Analysis)
From: Svenn Are Bjerkem <svenn.bjerkem@googlemail.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 08:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
> I would appreciate your opinions and comments. 

What immediately comes to my mind is getting the absolute file path of the .tim file to be able to use the location of that file as storage for output from python scripts.

I use your tool quite often to build vhdl testbenches. So far I use the cpp c-pre-processor to be able to include the vhdl output of the python script into the testbench vhdl.

-- 
Svenn

Article: 159422
Subject: Re: Quad-Port BlockRAM in Virtex
From: Kevin Neilson <kevin.neilson@xilinx.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2016 13:16:54 -0700 (PDT)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Friday, October 23, 2015 at 2:10:20 PM UTC-6, Kevin Neilson wrote:
> Update:  I found a solution in the "Altera Synthesis Cookbook" and it see=
ms to be the scheme I described above, but implementing the semaphore bits =
as FFs instead of distributed RAM.  I'd need about 2048 semaphore bits, so =
implementing that in a distributed RAM would probably be advantageous.  You=
 can do a 64-bit quad port (1 wr, 3 rd) in a 4-LUT slice, so I'd need 2048/=
64*4*2 =3D 256 LUTs to do 2 2048-bit quad-port distributed RAMs.  (Add in ~=
10 slices for 32->1 muxes.)

Update 2:  I came up with a better solution than the Altera Cookbook.  The =
semaphore bits are stored partly in a separate blockRAM and partly in the m=
ain data blockRAMs.  Then there is very little logic out in the fabric--jus=
t the muxes for the two read ports.  Too bad there isn't an app note on thi=
s.

Article: 159423
Subject: Re: Quad-Port BlockRAM in Virtex
From: Evgeny Filatov <filatov.ev@mipt.ru>
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 13:17:33 +0300
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On 01.11.2016 23:16, Kevin Neilson wrote:
> On Friday, October 23, 2015 at 2:10:20 PM UTC-6, Kevin Neilson wrote:
>> Update:  I found a solution in the "Altera Synthesis Cookbook" and it seems to be the scheme I described above, but implementing the semaphore bits as FFs instead of distributed RAM.  I'd need about 2048 semaphore bits, so implementing that in a distributed RAM would probably be advantageous.  You can do a 64-bit quad port (1 wr, 3 rd) in a 4-LUT slice, so I'd need 2048/64*4*2 = 256 LUTs to do 2 2048-bit quad-port distributed RAMs.  (Add in ~10 slices for 32->1 muxes.)
>
> Update 2:  I came up with a better solution than the Altera Cookbook.  The semaphore bits are stored partly in a separate blockRAM and partly in the main data blockRAMs.  Then there is very little logic out in the fabric--just the muxes for the two read ports.  Too bad there isn't an app note on this.
>

Again, why do you need four BRAMs? Perhaps I'm stupid, but I don't see 
what can be achieved with four BRAMs that cannot be achieved with two, 
if it's correct that "[h]aving multiple read ports is no problem". Or is 
it just how you solve the problem of having multiple read ports?

Like, you have two BRAMs A and B, and a semaphore array. The writer A 
writes to A and points the semaphore of address x to A. The writer B 
does the same for B. You read simultaneously A and B and the semaphore 
for address x.

Gene


Article: 159424
Subject: cool science thing
From: John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 08:29:33 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/11/03/study-reveals-how-particles-that-seed-clouds-in-the-amazon-are-produced/

Not all science research is true (roughly half) but this one is great.
Trees dump gaseous organics into the air (presumably at some expense)
and those things go high, become nanoparticles, get swept down by
turbulence, and become raindrop seeds.

So all the climate models up to now have been wrong. They will again.

Nice planet.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics 




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