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Messages from 6625

Article: 6625
Subject: Re: New Reconfigurable Computing newsgroup?
From: Steve Casselman <sc@vcc.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:38:08 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Even the guy (Andy Haines) who came up with the 
term FPGA didn't want to see reconfigurable
computing pegged into comp.arch.fpga. It is
not the right hierarchy and we should change it
and make it right. (its the engineer in me:-)
 
comp.arch.rpu.hardware
comp.arch.rpu.software
comp.arch.rpu.research

The RPU is going to be easy to get people to understand.
"Reconfigurable Processing Unit" tells you it is for
processing whereas fpga tells you its for gate arraying.
I would rather not have to go to any more parties and try
to explain "gate arrays." RPUs are processors that can
change their internal sturcture on demand.
-- 
Steve Casselman, President
Virtual Computer Corporation
http://www.vcc.com
Article: 6626
Subject: Re: Fine Pitch PQFP : anyone any hassles?
From: z80@dserve.com (Peter)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 17:40:34 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

>A hot air gun is cheaper, and won't leave you with some questionable
>alloy on the pads. I loop some non-insulated wire (26 AWG) under the
>pads of the device, and hold up the board by the wire. When the chip
>gets hot enough, it will come off without board damage.

I would be wary of using hot air to remove any thin package, e.g. TSOP
or TQFP. This is because after a few weeks in the open, these absorb
sufficient moisture to *probably* crack the package (or the silicon)
if rapidly heated to the solder melting point.

This is why these packages must be reflow soldered within a few hours
of opening the sealed bad.

I have learnt this the hard way, having once seen a 50% failure on
Xicor 28C256 TSOP devices, and others too. Hand-soldered ones were
100% fine.

But if you just want to remove a chip without wanting to re-use it,
hot air is fine.


Peter.

Return address is invalid to help stop junk mail.
E-mail replies to z80@digiserve.com.
Article: 6627
Subject: Re: Actel Designer Series 3.1 and NT 4.0?
From: "Rich K." <rich.katz@gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: 6 Jun 1997 18:45:33 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
hi hans,

we got the ds 3.1 working just fine under nt 4.0; it did take a bit of
messing (and cussin') to get the object store server running correctly. 
the workview office 7.2 loaded fine but we haven't run it yet over there
(slow migrating).  but there is one extra step that needs to be done
regarding accessing the key on the parallel port.

we have a 200 mhz pentium pro/nt and it runs FAST!  blew the doors off of a
90 mhz pentium/95 doing place and route on the same netlist.

rk

___________________________________________

Hans Tiggeler <ees1ht@ee.surrey.ac.uk> wrote in article
<5n8feh$9du@info-server.surrey.ac.uk>...
> 
> Does anybody know how to get Designer Series 3.1 working under NT4.0?
Perhaps 
> too much to ask, what about WorkView Office 7.2 under NT 4.0?
> 
> Thanks,
> Hans Tiggeler
> 
> 
Article: 6628
Subject: Cash Grant
From: gajhkajh@usa.net
Date: 6 Jun 1997 19:10:34 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>



We Have Over 150 Private Foundations In Our Program
All Over the United States...

WE ARE A FINANCIAL FINDER & MATCHING SERVICE
..."INTEREST - FREE CASH GRANTS!! - NEVER PAY BACK!!!"...


FOUNDATIONS CAN BE A BETTER SOURCE FOR FINANCE, THAN BANKS!
___________________________________________________________
Foundations give away billions of dollars every year to individuals. 
Most are non-profit organizations dedicated to the betterment of
society.  A foundation is excempt  from income tax because itís
non-profit status.  Private foundations have been giving out
cash-grants to people for over 100 years.  You can check with your
attorney or local chamber of commerce.

ARE YOU BEING REJECTED FOR THE MONEY YOU NEED SO BADLY?
_________________________________________________________
Then Why Not Try A Private Foundation? Interest Free Cash Grants From
$500.00 & Up to $50,000.00. No Collateral.  No Cosigners, No Security
Deposit, No Mortgages. No Credit Check.  No Pay Back.

ANYONE CAN GET AN INTEREST FREE CASH GRANT!
____________________________________________
As long as they have a genuine reason for needing money, & as long as
the foundation guidelines are met.

Dear Applicant,

This letter tells you HOW YOU CAN GET AN INTEREST-FREE CASH GRANT. 
Take a few minutes to read it. Youíll be suprised  to see how easy it
is to get a Cash-Grant, by mail. From time to time, everyone needs to
borrow.  The problem is that for most people making a loan is a big
hassle. Going to banks or finance companies in person takes a lot of
time.  In most cases, thereis endless paperwork.  And Unfortunately,
in many cases all that you end up with is a rejection notice.


ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIT CHECK
________________________
People are getting CASH GRANTS BY MAIL, that are Interest -Free & do
not have to be paid back, in any way.  Getting a Grant by mail is
probably a lot easier than you think.  In your area, there are usually
only a small number of places that will provide you with the money,
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who have genuine reasons for needing the money.  While it is not
possible for anyone to guarantee that you will receive a CASH GRANT BY
MAIL, the fact is that right now, someone just like you is getting
your grant.

Chances are that most banks in your area have very stringent loan
requirements.  On the other hand, most foundations who give GRANTS BY
MAIL are much more lenient.  Persons who have poor credit, no credit
or even those who have gone through bankruptcy  are able to get the
money that they need BY MAIL sent to them by check payable to them,
because foundations are NOT interested in CREDIT RATINGS.

GETTING A GRANT BY MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL
____________________________________
There are no embarrassing interviews.  Neither collateral nor
cosigners are required.  The main requirement is that you have a
legitimate need for the money and are willing to use it for whatever
reason that the foundation agrees to.  Everything is handled by mail.

We are not associated with any of the foundations in our program,
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There are actually hundreds of foundations with money that they are
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PLEASE REMEMBER: CASH-GRANTS are FREE of any interest, 
& they DO NOT NEED TO BE PAID BACK!
________________________________________________
Foundations give out money for a wide variety of needs as long as it
is something LEGAL & this means that you obtain the money to pay off
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Everything is handled by mail.


YOU DECIDE HOW MUCH MONEY YOU WANT TO OBTAIN.  
________________________________________________
The amount can be as little as $500.00 and up to $50,000.00, possible.
 And remember, there is NO CREDIT CHECK.

Interest-Free Cash Grants are ideal for people who have bad credit or
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As a Financial Finder & Matching Service, weíll review your service
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WE GUARANTEE THAT UNLESS WE HELP YOU WITH OUR SERVICE, TO GET THE
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Our Application fee is $19.95 for personal & Business Grants.  There
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The Entirety of this  Material and all Packages are Protected by 
Copyright Law. Copyright October 1996 By  McConville Enterprises, LLC .  
All Rights Reserved. / pst































Article: 6629
Subject: Re: Fine Pitch PQFP : anyone any hassles?
From: ghamilton@chrysalis-its.com (Garnett Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:15:15 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Thu, 05 Jun 1997 14:29:42 -0700, Pascal Dornier >> Emulation
Technology makes a produces called ChipQuik which consists
>> of a heavy-duty flux and special low-temp alloy.  All you have to do
>> is apply the flux to the pins of a part you want to remove and then
>> apply a bead of the alloy, effectively shorting all the leads
>> together.  You then heat the PWB from the back-side with a heat gun
>> and pick up the offending device with a vacuum pen.  I'm sure an IR
>> rework station would also work.  Remove the excess alloy with solder
>> wick and it's ready to go.
>
>A hot air gun is cheaper, and won't leave you with some questionable
>alloy on the pads. I loop some non-insulated wire (26 AWG) under the
>pads of the device, and hold up the board by the wire. When the chip
>gets hot enough, it will come off without board damage.
> 
I don't see how the trace amount of alloy left on the pads is a
problem.  By the time the pads are wiped off with solder wick, the
amount left will not significantly affect the reflow temperature of
the new solder.  Granted, if I am not careful to clean the pads and
the soldering iron the new solder joint will be dull and not
trustworthy.  However, done properly the new joint is shiny and
perfect.

I see a couple of disadvantages to the heat gun only approach:
- you need to heat all 4 sides of a QFP at the same time.  If you are
using a tip big enough to fully cover the part, it will be very
difficult to get the part hot enough.  (I have tried this in the past)
- it is difficult to prevent the reflow of solder on neighbouring
parts
- the temperature required to reflow the solder is same neighbourhood
as the temperature required to soften the glue holding the pads to the
PWB.  If the pads lift, type PWB quickly become junk.
- even with a proper IR rework station, it is possible to replace a
part 3-4 times.  I don't see that limit with ChipQuik.
- I want to be able to re-use the part after is it removed and not
worry that it was damaged by the heat of the removal process.  Using
an IR rework station, the heat is applied only to the pins.  I don't
see how you do this with a heat gun.

When I said that I apply a heat gun to the backside of a PWB, I meant
at a low setting.  The resulting alloy/solder mix melts at <200 F,
well below the temperature required to do device or PWB damage.

Thanks for your input, but I'm going to keep using ChipQuik.

	Garnett
===================Safeguarding the Keys to Electronic Commerce
     Garnett Hamilton             Chrysalis-ITS, Inc.
     Sr H/W Designer              200-380 Hunt Club Rd
Tel.: 613-731-6788 ext 120        Ottawa ON  K1C 1V1
Fax: 613-731-1013                 http://www.chrysalis-its.com
Eml: ghamilton@chrysalis-its.com
Article: 6630
Subject: Re: Fine Pitch PQFP : anyone any hassles?
From: fliptron@netcom.com (Philip Freidin)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:10:43 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Rhodes, Thanks for a SUPER article. Could you please identify your
vendor that does this assembly for you as I want to use them too!


In article <5n7f8k$cei$1@nntp2.ba.best.com> rhodes@gigaops.com writes:

...  A really GREAT article

>
>Rhodes Hileman
>Director of Manufacturing
>GigaOperations Corporation
>Berkeley, California
>rh@smsys.com
>www.gigaops.com


Article: 6631
Subject: Re: FPGA gate counting: No truth in advertising
From: Blair@QuickLogic.com
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:42:27 -0600
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
The original thread of this topic was "FPGA Gate Counting: No truth in
advertising".

Regarding the court case: This is a very complicated issue and because of
the ongoing litigation between Actel and QuickLogic I have no comment to
be presented in this forum.  I would prefer to spend my time competing in
the market place and work on growing market share.

Regards,
Ben Blair
Manager Field Applications
QuickLogic Corporation

Disclaimer:  The above statements are my own opinions and do not represent
QuickLogic Corporation in any way.


In article <19970605223419410642@1cust5.max2.minneapolis2.mn.ms.uu.net>,
  john@customer1st.com (John Sievert) wrote:
>
> Now that you have beat that to death, got anything to say about the
> summary judgement?  (My originial topic....)  That might actually be
> interesting. ;-)
>
> <Blair@QuickLogic.com> wrote:
>
> > Let me see, you signed your name and your company and your domain and you
> > are in the MN phone book and you supplied your email address,  yep you
> > are correct you did supply that information.  I just wanted to clarify
> > your identity without users having to search for your name, company,
> > domain, email or the MN phone book in order to be aware of that
> > particular piece of un-obvious information. Now, if that is a personal
> > attack then you are a pretty sensitive kind of guy.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ben Blair
> > Manager Field Applications
> > QuickLogic Corporation
> >
> > The above comments are my own and in no way express the views of
> > QuickLogic Corporation.  (Typical legal disclaimer) :^)
> >
> >
> > In article <19970531210528300253@1cust93.max1.minneapolis2.mn.ms.uu.net>,
> >   john@customer1st.com (John Sievert) wrote:
> > >
> > > Nothing hidden here!
> > >
> > > Let me see, I signed my name, my company name is in my domain name, both
> > > my name and my company's name are in the phone book,  and the POP I
> > > connected from is listed right in the email.  What's wrong with being
> > > the sales engineer here?  Aren't you a QL employee? Aren't we all
> > > involved in this industry?
> > >
> > > The issue isn't who works for who, but what's in the summary judgement -
> > > and therefore, who owns what. That isn't mud slinging, its a fact and
> > > now a matter of public record.   How is that mud slinging? What's your
> > > problem?
> > >
> > > If you've got something to say on this case, I'd be interested in
> > > hearing it.  This court case is complex, but interesting and worthy of
> > > discussion.  If you want to make personal attacks, I guess I'd consider
> > > that a waste of time.  But, if that's the image you want to project for
> > > you and your company, I guess that's your business.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > John Sievert
> > > Customer 1st, Inc.
> > >
> > > <Blair@QuickLogic.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <19970526224329123272@cust4.max1.minneapolis.mn.ms.uu.net>,
> > > >   john@customer1st.com (John Sievert) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Technology, which it appears, probably came from Actel (per summary
> > > > > judgement against QuickLogic on patent infringement.).
> > > > >
> > > > > <kevintsmith@compuserve.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In this case, it's not marketing hype, just superior
> > > > > > technology.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > John Sievert
> > > >
> > > > Aren't you the Actel Manufacturers Rep in the MN area?
> > > >
> > > > It would behoove you to not sling mud and try to hide your identity.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Ben Blair
> > > > Manager Field Applications
> > > > QuickLogic Corporation
> > > >
> > > > -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> > > >       http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > John Sievert
> >
> > -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> >       http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet
>
> --
> Regards,
> John Sievert

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Article: 6632
Subject: Re: Altera Versus Xilinx
From: s_clubb@netcomuk.co.uk (Stuart Clubb)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 21:53:34 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
On Thu, 05 Jun 1997 09:49:48 +0100, Iakovos Stamoulis
<I.Stamoulis@Sussex.ac.uk> wrote:

>Alright, but what exactly makes Altera's non-PCI compatible ???

I think I've answered that a few times :-)

<snip>

>  You may be pleased to hear since then, we have
>switched to ORCA 2C40s which IMHO are by far
>more sophisticated FPGAs/CPLD.

What more can I say?
A man with impeccable taste.

Stuart

Article: 6633
Subject: Re: Fine Pitch PQFP : anyone any hassles?
From: vaughan@wave.co.nz
Date: 7 Jun 1997 00:34:41 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
In <3397ea75.185165323@client.news.psi.ca>, ghamilton@chrysalis-its.com (Garnett Hamilton) writes:
>On 3 Jun 1997 18:56:37 GMT, johnm@Newbridge.COM (John McDougall)
>wrote:
>
>It's quick, easy, and results in ZERO damage to the PWB.  If you are
>careful you can even re-use the device you are removing.  Cost of the
>kit is $47Cdn.  I can remove a 144-pin TQFP and have the sight clean,
>ready for new part, in 10 minutes.


Circuit Specialists Inc. (http://www.cir.com) sell this
kit for US$18.95. I don't know what the current exhange
rate is off the top of my head, it may me a better price.
(5 up price is 15.79).
Article: 6634
Subject: Re: PCI how to
From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroo4m@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 7 Jun 1997 03:01:47 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Ivan,

Get a copy of the PCI spec either by joining PCI SIG, or getting a copy of
Solari 'PCI Hardware and Software', which I highly recommend (available at
www.annabooks.com).  The easiest PCI tutorial there is is the PCI
spec....it is really pretty good!

There is no 'simple' PCI interface, you have to do a full target
implementation (less target burst...) to be able to do anything (ie,
configuration accesses require a fully working target state machine and
control logic...) ...that is as simple as it gets.  You can leave out
parity checking, but you still have to do parity generation...

Some CPLD/FPGA manufacturers (I can't name any off the top of my head, or I
would...) offer PCI 'design' information....to do a target....and you might
want to check their web sites...

Bon Chance!

Austin Franklin
darkroom@ix.netcom.com


Ivan Hamer <ivan@caseware.com> wrote in article
<3395d321.22329448@news.caseware.com>...
> 
>    I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow
> me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some
> information about the ISA interfaces,  but basically nothing usefull
> about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I
> should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or
> literature).
> 
>   Ivan Hamer (ivan.hamer@toronto.edu).
> 
Article: 6635
Subject: Re: PCI how to
From: Steve Casselman <sc@vcc.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:19:35 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
> Ivan Hamer <ivan@caseware.com> wrote in article
> <3395d321.22329448@news.caseware.com>...
> >
> >    I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow
> > me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some
> > information about the ISA interfaces,  but basically nothing usefull
> > about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I
> > should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or
> > literature).
> >
> >   Ivan Hamer (ivan.hamer@toronto.edu).
> >
Check out http://www.vcc.com/pci6200.html 
-- 
Steve Casselman, President
Virtual Computer Corporation
http://www.vcc.com
Article: 6636
Subject: Re: PCI how to
From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroo4m@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 8 Jun 1997 02:42:17 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Steve,

I believe you meant:

http://www.vcc.com/products/pci6200.html

This seems to work...the one you listed below doesn't ;-)

Austin


Steve Casselman <sc@vcc.com> wrote in article <3399A637.2C3E@vcc.com>...
> > Ivan Hamer <ivan@caseware.com> wrote in article
> > <3395d321.22329448@news.caseware.com>...
> > >
> > >    I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow
> > > me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some
> > > information about the ISA interfaces,  but basically nothing usefull
> > > about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I
> > > should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or
> > > literature).
> > >
> > >   Ivan Hamer (ivan.hamer@toronto.edu).
> > >
> Check out http://www.vcc.com/pci6200.html 
> -- 
> Steve Casselman, President
> Virtual Computer Corporation
> http://www.vcc.com
> 
Article: 6637
Subject: Re: Fine Pitch PQFP : anyone any hassles?
From: Tom Burgess <Tom_Burgess@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 23:31:43 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
rhodes@gigaops.com wrote:
> (a short excerpt from an EXCELLENT post):
> 
> Inspection is done under 10x or 20x microscope with a fiberoptic ring lamp.
> Using a "probe" (a flexible scribe, or a needle in an Exacto chuck) every pin on the
> FPGA is pushed on the side of the foot with about 12-16oz. of pressure.  The
> probe's flexing can be calibrated against a scale.  With a little practice the inspector
> can repeatedly produce 14oz, +-1oz, even with his eyes closed.
> 
> This probing reveals solder joints which were inadequately heated, usually by the
> reflow oven, occasionally by hand.  The joint may look perfect to visual inspection,
> with well-sloped fillets all around the foot, but underneath the foot there may be
> un-fused solder paste, or no solder.  With pressure held on the side of the foot for
> 1-2 seconds, the foot in a defective joint will slowly twist or slide off the land.  It
> does not pop off; it slides as if held by soft fudge.  Usually the toe holds best while
> the heel lets go.
> 

I wonder if infrared thermal imaging would be of use here. Since electrical
conductivity seems to go hand-in-hand with thermal conductivity, if one
imaged a cold package on a warm board, leads that were not well connected
to the board should appear cooler than leads that had a good solder joint.
Since I don't have an IR system to play with (perhaps $10K?), I have no idea
of the practicality of this idea, but it seems in principle do-able, at least
for isolating potential problem areas that could then be hand-probed.

	regards, tom
Article: 6638
Subject: Re: Need Address/Phone/Fax List of Semiconductor Companies
From: edpaolo@intac.com (Ed Paolo)
Date: 8 Jun 1997 11:55:14 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
: > Bharat Kurani (Bharat.Kurani@add.ssw.abbott.com) wrote:
: > : I need address/phone/fax list of all semiconductor companines
: > 
: > Then you should be looking in the Thomas Register.  Check your local
: > library.
: > 
: > : Thank you
: > 
: > : bharat@antrix.com
: > : Bharat.Kurani@add.ssw.abbott.com

	Thomas Reg. on-line at http://noframes.thomasregister.com/loginchk.cgi
--
				EdDataFix
			     edpaolo@intac.com
			     Scotch  Plains, N.J.
				

Article: 6639
Subject: Re: Fine Pitch PQFP : anyone any hassles?
From: Steve Wiseman <steve@sj.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 13:12:59 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Peter wrote:
 
> But if you just want to remove a chip without wanting to re-use it,
> hot air is fine.

Or just slice the pins off very close to the package with a sharp knife,
then nip round and desolder many pins at a time using a biggish tip and
a blob of solder. IME, far less likely to kill pads / tracks that way. 
It also avoids any temptation to re-use the chip. 

   Steve
Article: 6640
Subject: fpga usage by capacity
From: "Richard B. Katz" <stellere@erols.com>
Date: 8 Jun 1997 19:53:10 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
hi,

i am doing a bit of a study and am trying to collect information on fpga
usage.  i would first like to break it down by size in "gates" - so i guess
you ought to list the manufacturer along with the gate size  :-)  then i'll
also be able to break it down by manufacturer also.

feel free to either post or e-mail.  i am interested in number of designs,
not the number of production units.  if you would like to add a description
of the application that would be interesting too.

i'll collect whatever responses i get, organize them, and post them.

thanks for any info,

rk
Article: 6641
Subject: Re: Don't Design With Altera Parts... Altera Obsolete Parts
From: "William E. Lenihan III" <lenihan3we@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 13:15:02 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
robert bible wrote:
> 
> Everyone designing with FPGAs or CPLDs should stay away from altera if
> they expect a long product life for their design. I am sure that I am
> not the only person who is being burned by the discontinuing production
> of the EPX 880 EPX 8160... Altera is completely irresponsible shutting
> off production with minimal notice. What are we supposed to do. Redesign
> working items in production because Altera refuses to support their
> customers.
> 
> Think about what life would be like if all the semiconductor companies
> acted like Altera.  I guess they do give EE job security. But I have
> better things to do than migrate designs from one device to another
> because of Altera marketing decisions.
> 
>                         Robert Bible
>                         San Diego

Altera is really acting no differently than other semi makers. When
demand falls, and technololgy becomes obsolete, they will shut down a
product line. I think even Xilinx is starting to make noise about
obsoleting some of their earlier chips. IC makers are getting more and
more of their revenue from high volume products that have short
production lives. That means those of us with longer-lived products have
little choice but to invest in lifetime buys or plan for redesigns. You
can make the redesign path easier by embracing synthesis and your HDL of
choice.

In the past, Altera was guilty of not being vocal about their
obsolescence plans, but they seemd to get better a year or two ago. The
responsible thing to do would be for Altera (& other IC makers) to post
this info on their web site, send mass mailing announcements to their
customers, and even send press releases to the main Engineering
magazines for inclusion in their "news & notes" sections. They should
also be giving customers at least a 1 year transition zone before last
buys. Has Altera failed to do these things in your case?

There is no shortage of press announcements about the latest & greatest
from these companys, but damn little information about products and
tools that are on their deathbed.

-- 
=====================================================================
 William Lenihan                            lenihan3we@earthlink.net

    "The greatest barrier to communication is the delusion that
     it has already occurred."       -- Peter Cummings
=====================================================================
Article: 6642
Subject: readback on xc40xx ?
From: Andreas Wassatsch <wa11@e-technik.uni-rostock.de>
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 08:10:16 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hello,

i have a problem with the readback on the xc40xx.

has anyone some information to or expierences with this feature ?


Andreas Wassatsch
-- =

#  Andreas Wassatsch                           Tel: +49 (0)381 498 3533
#  University Rostock                          Fax: +49 (0)381 498 1126
#  Department of Electrical Engineering
#  Institute of Applied Microelectronics and Computer Science
#  Richard-Wagner-Str. 31
#  18119 Rostock-Warnem=FCnde        email: wa11@e-technik.uni-rostock.de=

#  Germany            WWW: http://www-md.e-technik.uni-rostock.de/~wa11
Article: 6643
Subject: Re: PCI how to
From: Gareth Baron <gareth@trsys.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:55:59 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Ivan,

Wouldn't the best idea be to use a Standard PCI interface IC and then
add your FPGA or other logic around that.  I'm sure companies like UMC
etc manufacture these devices by the millions.


It may be cheaper than using an FPGA.  I can understand why you would
want to use an FPGA though.


>
>   I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow
>me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some
>information about the ISA interfaces,  but basically nothing usefull
>about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I
>should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or
>literature).
>
>  Ivan Hamer (ivan.hamer@toronto.edu).


Gareth Baron

Article: 6644
Subject: Re: PCI how to
From: acher@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Georg Acher)
Date: 9 Jun 1997 11:27:22 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

In article <3395d321.22329448@news.caseware.com>, ivan@caseware.com (Ivan Hamer) writes:
|> 
|>    I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow
|> me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some
|> information about the ISA interfaces,  but basically nothing usefull
|> about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I
|> should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or
|> literature).

If you don't want to spend more than half a year in designing/testing your own
PCI implementation, try some of-the-shelf chips (maybe there are more...):

S5933 from AMCC (http://www.amcc.com/product-guide/pci/pci.html) and 
PCI9060 from PLX (http://www.plxtech.com/overvue.htm)

The PLX PCI9060 has a 'normal' i960-bus, DMA-controllers and some other gimmicks
onchip. The S5933 seems to be what you need (basic IO).
-- 
	Bye
         Georg Acher, acher@informatik.tu-muenchen.de         
         http://www.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/~acher/
          "Oh no, not again !" The bowl of petunias          
Article: 6645
Subject: Re: PCI how to
From: Mike Kelly <cogent@cogcomp.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 09:46:34 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Georg Acher wrote:
> 
> In article <3395d321.22329448@news.caseware.com>, ivan@caseware.com (Ivan Hamer) writes:
> |>
> |>    I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow
> |> me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some
> |> information about the ISA interfaces,  but basically nothing usefull
> |> about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I
> |> should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or
> |> literature).
> 
> If you don't want to spend more than half a year in designing/testing your own
> PCI implementation, try some of-the-shelf chips (maybe there are more...):
> 
> S5933 from AMCC (http://www.amcc.com/product-guide/pci/pci.html) and
> PCI9060 from PLX (http://www.plxtech.com/overvue.htm)
> 
> The PLX PCI9060 has a 'normal' i960-bus, DMA-controllers and some other gimmicks
> onchip. The S5933 seems to be what you need (basic IO).
> --
>         Bye
>          Georg Acher, acher@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
>          http://www.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/~acher/
>           "Oh no, not again !" The bowl of petunias

Also try the V3 website http://www.vcubed.com

-- 
Michael J. Kelly
tel: (508) 278-9400
fax: (508) 278-9500
web: http://www.cogcomp.com
Article: 6646
Subject: Re: readback on xc40xx ?
From: jmarnold@potomac.znet.com (Jeffrey M. Arnold)
Date: 9 Jun 1997 08:19:19 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
In article <339B9E48.1FC6@e-technik.uni-rostock.de>,
Andreas Wassatsch  <wa11@e-technik.uni-rostock.de> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>i have a problem with the readback on the xc40xx.
>
>has anyone some information to or expierences with this feature ?

Can you describe the problem you are having?  One thing to bear in
mind is the MAXIMUM readback clock period spec.  The latches which
hold the readback state are dynamic and suffer bit rot if you shift
the data out too slowly.

-jeff
-- 
Jeffrey M. Arnold		jma@super.org or jmarnold@znet.com
10686 Mira Lago Terrace		Tel: 619-547-9257
San Diego, CA 92131		Fax: 619-547-9010
USA
Article: 6647
Subject: XC6200 Gate Count
From: merino@die.upm.es (Pedro Merino Gonzalez)
Date: 9 Jun 1997 16:54:58 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I'm studying Xilinx information about one of their new parts: the
XC6200. When I saw the architecture, I thought that it was possible to map
only one gate for each cell (they have only one functional unit and each
FU is capable of implementing only one gate). If you look at the table
of characteristics of these FPGAs they say that the XC6216 has 4096
cells (64x64) but the maximum number of logic gates is 24,000 

Is there anybody able to explain this to me?

--
            ///                   \\\
           ( ..)                 (.. )
--------o00-(_)-00o-----------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------
Pedro Merino Gonzalez
Ph. D. Student at Integrated Systems Laboratory (UPM)

mail: E.T.S.I. de Telecomunicacion       phone:  (+34 1)549-5700 x 420
      Dpto. de Ingenieria Electronica    fax:    (+34 1) 336-7323
      Ciudad Universitaria s/n           email:  merino@die.upm.es
      28040 Madrid (Spain)      WWW: -> http://betis.die.upm.es/~merino
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 6648
Subject: Re: XC6200 Gate Count
From: Phil Short <pjs3@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:35:09 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Pedro Merino Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> I'm studying Xilinx information about one of their new parts: the
> XC6200. When I saw the architecture, I thought that it was possible to map
> only one gate for each cell (they have only one functional unit and each
> FU is capable of implementing only one gate). If you look at the table

Each FU has a 2:1 mux and a flip-flop.  One could call the mux 2 gates
(average of 1 and 3) and the flip-flop 4 gates, for a total of 24K
gates.
The Xilinx data sheet says 16,000-24,000 gates, and the 24,000 gate
count
is the upper limit that will only be infrequently attained.

> of characteristics of these FPGAs they say that the XC6216 has 4096
> cells (64x64) but the maximum number of logic gates is 24,000
> 
> Is there anybody able to explain this to me?
> 

I am sure that both Xilinx and their competitors will respond.  There
have also been recent newsgroup threads discussing gate-counting
methodologies,which I have not researched in writing this response.

> --
>             ///                   \\\
>            ( ..)                 (.. )
> --------o00-(_)-00o-----------o00-(_)-00o------------------------------
> Pedro Merino Gonzalez
> Ph. D. Student at Integrated Systems Laboratory (UPM)
> 
> mail: E.T.S.I. de Telecomunicacion       phone:  (+34 1)549-5700 x 420
>       Dpto. de Ingenieria Electronica    fax:    (+34 1) 336-7323
>       Ciudad Universitaria s/n           email:  merino@die.upm.es
>       28040 Madrid (Spain)      WWW: -> http://betis.die.upm.es/~merino
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Article: 6649
Subject: Re: PCI how to
From: Steve Casselman <sc@vcc.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:10:51 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Austin Franklin wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I believe you meant:
> 
> http://www.vcc.com/products/pci6200.html
> 
> This seems to work...the one you listed below doesn't ;-)
> 
> Austin
> 
> Steve Casselman <sc@vcc.com> wrote in article <3399A637.2C3E@vcc.com>...
> > > Ivan Hamer <ivan@caseware.com> wrote in article
> > > <3395d321.22329448@news.caseware.com>...
> > > >
> > > >    I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow
> > > > me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some
> > > > information about the ISA interfaces,  but basically nothing usefull
> > > > about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I
> > > > should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or
> > > > literature).
> > > >
> > > >   Ivan Hamer (ivan.hamer@toronto.edu).
> > > >
> > Check out http://www.vcc.com/products/pci6200.html
> > --
> > Steve Casselman, President
> > Virtual Computer Corporation
> > http://www.vcc.com
> >
You are right about the address thing - opps.
Our revised board has the feature that you can load the 
XC4013 dynamicly. There are lots of examples of PCI interfaces
around (look at Xilinx app notes for verilog PCI interface
using 3000). All the schematics for the HOT Works are included
so you can port a design to the XC4013. The board only costs
$995 and comes with 2 meg 15ns ram all the software to program
the XC6216 and examples along with Hardware Object Technology.
To program the XC4013 you would also need the Xact software
for the 4000 series devices. 


-- 
Steve Casselman, President
Virtual Computer Corporation
http://www.vcc.com


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